As will surprise nobody, Mark Diaz Truman continues to receive abuse for calling out some broken stairs and harassment in the Indie game community. The project of pressuring Mark to abandon his principles is aided and abetted by the fact that for some reason nobody in that community ever asks for evidence to back up accusations.
Lots of folks are whaling on me--of course--but I saw some collateral damage in one public thread and if we don't provide facts we're no better than they are.
So: you can see some pretty harrowing accusations here against James Raggi, publisher of Lamentations of the Flame Princess.
So, the evidence: The threads the accuser is referring to are here (you gotta be in James' circles to read it) and here. You can judge for yourself.
If you want to support James during these trying times, you can get something cool at the LotFP store.
Edit Aug 2, 6:03 pm Pacific Time:
I got 2 reports in the last hour about the person who harassed James quitting G+. The second one suggested James' harasser had received some kind of threat from some other harasser.
Obviously: do not do that, don't send threats of any kind to people. Do this instead.
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I don't have the time or the energy to delve through all these online debates in detail; but if the accusations about what Raggi's said are as ill-founded as the ones about what he's published, I have no difficulty in believing them to be baseless. Though the highly exaggerated claims about how horrific and offensive and controversial LotFP is probably at least provide useful publicity.
ReplyDeleteThe bundle really is very good.
I think I can see where Taylor is coming from, and why it was felt that James was rude, as I think I see how he misunderstood the context for Taylor's statement.
ReplyDeleteAlways giving the source and facts are good practices, indeed.
Just another example of why text only internet conversations seems ripe for misunderstandings. Way too much of what's going on now is the Eternal September.
If you walked away from that seeing where Taylor was coming from, you were not reading very carefully.
DeleteTaylor obviously wasn't reading very carefully either though Taylor presumably (one hopes) has extenuating reasons not to read carefully.
Do you?
And, moreover, you aren't allowed to just assume and then spread that assumption all over the internet like Taylor did _without checking with your victim to make sure you got it right_ .
DeleteAnybody can misunderstand--the responsible person checks
Yes, I think you are correct that Taylor did not read as carefully as you say. I think he was hurting a lot and taking everything around him in the worst possible way, and that James in that way he phrased things made it possible for Taylor to interpret James' statement as an attack. I do not for a second think it was intended as it was received.
DeleteBut, like I said. I think this medium seems to breed misunderstandings. Hell, like you say I misreads things and take it the wrong way to online myself as well.
Sorry.
Delete"Hell, like you say I misreads things online and take it the wrong way myself as well."
I actually just now tried to have a conversation with Taylor, and he do seems to be a very hurt individual that probably does not read carefully and weights the intention of what is written.
DeleteSadly I might just have unintentionally piled more pain on his back.
And that is the entire Zak vs Drama Club dynamic in a nutshell.
DeleteWell. You are one of the most literal minded people I've talked to online, and Taylor seems to be in a world of hurt in general, so if that combo happens often I can see how sparks will fly...
DeleteIt's not that I'm literal-minded, it's that I am aware of the legal and moral status of written, recorded,public communication as being different than the status of casual speech.
DeleteIf you don't want what you say taken literally, don't be typing it in a serious conversation visible to all strangers with access to Google forever. They don't have the context stupid people assume everyone does, because they just googled that conversation.
Seriously saying things you literally can't back up in public forever is just irresponsible in that context and can do a lot of harm.
I don't disagree in spirit, but trust me, I've seen few who are so consistent about it as you. :)
DeleteI am very much hoping to give Mr. Raggi some money at Gencon in a couple of days.
ReplyDeleteI don't know where you get the patience. Respect.
ReplyDeleteIs all the drama really just as simple as this... the drama club hates the fact that 1) Zak and several of his gaming group are associated with/have done porn and 2) professional jealousy that he's not only a consultant for 5E but also very successful professionally with his gaming products?
ReplyDeleteOh, and Zak calls people out when they make claims without facts and data to back them up. Which is totally fair... and if you admit your mistake and recant, that's fine. Be an adult, own it.
I've noticed the latest tactic of the drama club these days is to claim that Zak "deleted" posts that were proof of their claims. *rolls eyes* How convenient...
I would never assert your first paragraph since I can't prove it.
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They're saying I deleted posts? Where? What?
That's true, unless someone flat out says it, we have no proof.
DeleteWhen I was reading Marks thread and the replies and related material I saw more than one claim to that effect. I am hunting one down now...
Excerpy from Mike on Marks two minutes hate post, July 27th at 1:36am: "... Unfortunately, because Zak edited and deleted many posts in that discussion (and later the other discussion between he and Tony), there’s no evidence of it other than the screencap taken of Rob’s post..."
DeleteThey also are acting like _that's the only shit thing Rob's done_ . In reality he has been harassing people for years:
DeleteHere's Robert Bohl basically plussing the idea that you should only assume good faith with your own clique:
https://plus.google.com/+RowanCota/posts/cNBrvwEUaAv
Here he is dogpiling harassment and lying:
https://plus.google.com/+RowanCota/posts/aRLqo3qGbxu
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Here's Robert Bohl endorsing harassment via false claims:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/114989648662861338239/posts/Vt5xzC42cpG
https://plus.google.com/+FredHicks/posts/JcovUxJdRUR
https://plus.google.com/118259119150230982431/posts/2y5SDwRLC4g
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Here;s Robert Bohl committing harassment by spreading false claims:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/+RobertBohl/posts/XJA2G24FjdC
https://plus.google.com/u/0/117696812743786248325/posts/PjAz621FPMF
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Robert Bohl dogpiling harassment and admitting openly that he is not rational:
https://plus.google.com/+RowanCota/posts/MXfepzdZYV5
Robert BohlSep 3, 2015
I got it now.
I'm all for walking out on and trash talking that douchebag, but I am not very rational about him.
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Robert Bohl attacking folks after starting an anti-OSR pecking party thread
https://plus.google.com/u/0/+RobertBohl/posts/8RMrE2xqzaE
Robert Bohl
Shared publicly - Jan 19, 2016
Where is the innovation in OSR games?
Zak SmithYesterday 4:46 AM+2
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Honestly, when I see some of The Other Indie RPG Movement's new stuff I am wondering, information-design wise, when they're gonna catch up to OSR innovations. Vincent Baker's Seclusium for example could've benefitted a lot from split-column tables or labelled maps.
Robert BohlYesterday 4:47 AM+1
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Hey, Zak, fuck off, you worthless piece of shit. I see what you're doing and I will not play.
Zak SmithYesterday 4:48 AM
Answer the question you asked in the OP?
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DeleteRobert Bohl
+Dan Maruschak - I refuse to engage in his lies. He's not here to talk. He never is. He just want to start fights. I am laying bare his incredibly simple bullshit.
+Zak Smith - Fuck you you halfwit asshole. I don't care how many Ennies you're nominated for. By all means though, keep congratulating yourself on awards. That's the height of artistic success. You vapid, empty, worthless shitheel. Your work is valueless and tainted by dint of coming from your fingers. You're a scumbag and everyone knows it. I will not play your stupid game.
Jul 9, 2015
Zak Sabbath's profile photo
Zak Sabbath
+Dan Maruschak I never asserted that every thread needed to be about anything . If you believe I said that or believe it: Citation needed.
I do think the present thread has provided an example of the problem I see in spades .
Jul 9, 2015
Dan Maruschak's profile photo
Dan Maruschak
+1
+Robert Bohl As a third party, I can tell you that it doesn't look to me like you are laying bare anything. I looks to me like you're hurling insults.
Jul 9, 2015
Dan Maruschak's profile photo
Dan Maruschak
+Zak Smith Citation needed: where did I say you asserted that? I was just saying a true thing. Do you disagree with the true thing I said?
Jul 9, 2015
Robert Bohl's profile photo
Robert Bohl
+Dan Maruschak - I'm definitely doing that. That's all he's earned. He's nothing but a troll who pretends to have conversations. He prides himself on causing fights. He's a bad person, and we need to stop acting like that's not true. I don't really care what I look like. I'm just tired of pretending he is not what he is.
Jul 9, 2015
Robert Bohl's profile photo
Robert Bohl
And we all need to stop acting like we don't know what he's doing.
Jul 9, 2015
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Robert Bohl
I did derail. I'm a bad person in that regard. I'm just sick of pretending he's not what he is. And with everyone else pretending he's not what he is.
Sorry for being an asshole but I'm done being silenced too, so I should probably be blocked by everyone.
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Robert Bohl's profile photo
Robert Bohl
Anyone who drops me based on that is welcome to fuck off, you stupid, insipid pig.
And jesus christ, everything about you is worthless. Not only are your arguments pointless, circular, and trolling, but your shitty handle on the interface makes your posts visually chaotic and even more taxing and enervating to endure than your Byzantine bullshit already is. Which is really saying something. You manage to make an unendurable experience even more noxious, you foul pigfucker.
But you're right. I'm psychotic. You sure pegged me. And unable to have a conversation.
(Or maybe it's just you. Maybe your behavior earns you a literally unique response, in my entire Internet experience.)
What I appreciated more from this conversation was that once it was set aside what people THOUGHT Zak was saying and actually listened and questioned what they didn't understand lo and behold some common ground was reached.
DeleteIt's easy if you don't do their usual thing of assuming bad faith
Deleteif i could project that hard id open a drive-in. dude is refusing to see past his own zeal. i mean, i would be really embarrassed if i wrote some crazy shit like that.
DeleteWow. Yeah, that's not just rude and hateful, it's vicious, dangerous and concerning. Mark was WAY too forgiving, this kind of person needs to be ostracized and condemned.
ReplyDelete