tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post7675809836653754944..comments2024-03-28T17:01:13.905-07:00Comments on Playing D&D With Porn Stars: Type II and Type III Conversion HelpZak Sabbathhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-25654806233564458502011-03-14T22:00:21.785-07:002011-03-14T22:00:21.785-07:00When I was working on my Diminutive d20 rules I di...When I was working on my <a href="http://www.superdan.net/dimd20/" rel="nofollow">Diminutive d20</a> rules I did some stats on 3E monsters and got this boil-down (note - Initiative was not something I could abstract easily):<br />------------------------------------<br />Ability Scores: If physical abilities are needed, assume Str, Dex, and Con scores of 10+HD for any creature.<br />Special Attacks: Any special attacks without a listed DC should assume a difficulty class of 10+HD.<br />Skill Checks: Spot and Listen checks can be made by rolling d20 + HD. Other skills are summarized below.<br />------------------------------------<br />Construct, Ooze, Plant: No skills.<br />Elemental, Outsider: Spot/List HD+2.<br />Undead: Spot/List HD+4, Hide/MSil HD+4.<br />Fey, Shapech.: Spot/List HD+8, Hide/MSil HD+4+Size.<br />Giant: Spot/List HD–6, Climb/Jump = HD.<br />Animal, Vermin: Spot/List +6 fixed bonus. Vermin also get Hide +8+Size fixed bonus, Climb HD+6.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-82408808752706655642011-03-14T17:20:31.401-07:002011-03-14T17:20:31.401-07:00Might be a little late for my two cents here but I...Might be a little late for my two cents here but I'll give 'em to you anyways. From a 3.5 perspective (and now that I'm pathfinder that too I guess), I could totally run this. <br />The save DC for the abilities at 1/2 HD +2 seems alright to me. Perhaps I'm telling you things you don't need to know here, but typically if a monster has a special ability, they probably also have a decent stat the ability is derived from. In this example I'd treat this as a charisma based ability, and it's easy to assume that the thing would have a CHA of 14 or so, which would then result in the DC as you have it calculated here. <br /><br />What would really help us out is a creature type (here I would say Magical beast). Sometimes this is pretty easy to determine, but sometimes not. Like how a chaos beast is an outsider, even though it seems to be more of an ooze or an aberration. With creature type, size and a number of hit dice I can look in the back of my books and determine his attack bonus, save bonuses, what dice size dice to roll for his attacks, everything.DukeofOrangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02260658048434275236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-59192256550085021332011-03-12T07:07:43.093-08:002011-03-12T07:07:43.093-08:00For what it's worth, your proposed stat block ...For what it's worth, your proposed stat block seems fine to this 3.5 DM. Actually, your block is akin to a Castles & Crusades one. C&C uses a monster's hit dice for the basis for just about everything (you add it to the d20 for "to hit" rolls, you add it to the d20 for saves, etc.). It works fine and makes C&C very compatible with other editions. One nice thing they do to give a little variety is specify whether a creature's saves are good for "physical" or "mental" (or both).Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14530179506824150455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-62077792857435881062011-03-11T21:37:54.136-08:002011-03-11T21:37:54.136-08:00@ huth
I assume anybody who is buying a non-WOTC ...@ huth<br /><br />I assume anybody who is buying a non-WOTC product for D&D--especially an LOTFP one, has a decent probability of being a veteran DM.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-27268940211071166152011-03-11T21:32:11.150-08:002011-03-11T21:32:11.150-08:00Converting stat drain to penalties is definately t...<i>Converting stat drain to penalties is definately the best way to handle it and I'm sure most veteran 3-3.5 DMs won't have any problem winging it if the stats are not presented. </i><br /><br />Should 'veteran DMs' be assumed?huthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16502682297320819595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-80354821040711453912011-03-11T19:51:55.081-08:002011-03-11T19:51:55.081-08:00I think if you add a line about assuming a trait b...I think if you add a line about assuming a trait bonus of +3 (or whatever you think works) I'd be able to extrapolate out stats in 3.5, Pathfinder, and D&D 4E. I don't think stat drain is too big of a deal. It is one of those things I always try to avoid using anyway.<br /><br />The only other thing that comes to mind would be how to pick skills and feats neither of which are particularly important for a monster.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-35369016586080825482011-03-11T15:48:10.028-08:002011-03-11T15:48:10.028-08:00@Michael
Converting stat drain to penalties is de...@Michael<br /><br />Converting stat drain to penalties is definately the best way to handle it and I'm sure most veteran 3-3.5 DMs won't have any problem winging it if the stats are not presented.ravenconspiracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02213200607228975388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-61856930105539646902011-03-11T14:11:08.340-08:002011-03-11T14:11:08.340-08:00If you use the sample NPCs in the DMG for your ...If you use the sample NPCs in the DMG for your 'ordinary fighter' attack bonus/saves/etc, you can just use his stats as well, no?<br /><br />And as far as ability damage/drain attacks by PC's, 2pts of Con is going to cost the monster 1hp/hd, 2pts of Dex is going to cost a point of AC, and so on. Unless you're worried about the monster actually dying (or becoming paralyzed) by hitting zero in a stat, the stat doesn't really matter.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11014669999653731078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-44976620362825605862011-03-11T09:31:33.500-08:002011-03-11T09:31:33.500-08:00@Zak
Jeez, bite my head off for trying to help (r...@Zak<br /><br />Jeez, bite my head off for trying to help (red text,really? ouch!) You did say you had never played straight 3e so I just wanted to cover my bases before bringing up monster templates.<br /><br />But fo reelz about stats - the other reason monsters might need stats is that in 3 and 3.5 there are relatively common "stat damaging" attacks. <br /><br />For example, some poisons negate con temporarily instead of doing normal damage, potentially PCs could get this and use it against a monster. <br /><br />Also it is common for some spells to drop a monster a few points of str or dex as a spell effect.<br /><br />-Also, I'm not saying you need to include stats, good DMs can always just make them up. <br /><br />Heck, I don't even play 3.5 anymore, largely because there are often too many things to keep track of (such as damage to monster stats).ravenconspiracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02213200607228975388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-71688175852088481862011-03-11T09:02:11.863-08:002011-03-11T09:02:11.863-08:00@justin I don't get it. I get that you can bui...<em>@justin I don't get it. I get that you can build a "to hit" bonus if I give you stats. But why do you need the stats if I just give you the bonus to begin with?</em><br /><br />Well, like I said, resolving ability score damage is the most obvious and indisputable reason. But at a more pervasive level, ability scores are just widely used in D&D3. You say "just make it up", but that's just telling me that you never really wanted an answer to the question you asked. What do I need? I need ability scores and I need skills.<br /><br />More generally, having given this some more thought, I'm suggesting that if you give me ability scores you can simplify your guidelines considerably and skip any kind of chart look-up:<br /><br />Melee Attack: HD + Str mod<br />Ranged Attack: HD + Dex mod<br />Saving Throws: 1/2 HD + ability mod<br />Skills: HD + ability mod<br />Save DCS: HD + 12<br /><br />If I didn't need ability scores anyway, this wouldn't be my recommendation. But since I do, there you are.Justin Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02227895898395353754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-60460036568022949082011-03-11T02:11:01.575-08:002011-03-11T02:11:01.575-08:00People like the microlite20 statblocks, right?People like the microlite20 statblocks, right?huthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16502682297320819595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-16993612871937785972011-03-11T01:26:44.285-08:002011-03-11T01:26:44.285-08:00Zak, I love the simplicity you are trying to bring...Zak, I love the simplicity you are trying to bring to THE GAME. I, like you, am a 3X/PF DM and player who has many homebrew elements (mostly some minor tweaks I stole from 4e when I was checking it out). <br /><br />It makes perfect sense: why do we need the stats when we have the mods? We just need AB, AC, Saves, and some skills. <br /><br />I am, depending on what happens with my job in the next few months, going to be getting back to my group after a long break. I am looking for any tools I can use to strip down my rules requirements so that I can add cool new stuff in without adding extra time to my games, while making DMing in a tentpole-sandbox a bit less administrative work for me, so that I can concentrate on the play of the game instead of the rules of the game.Christian Kolbehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03808999032249180746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-4118477640134970152011-03-11T01:11:38.056-08:002011-03-11T01:11:38.056-08:00Honestly? No I could pretty much wing it with tha...Honestly? No I could pretty much wing it with that level of description in either 2 or 3(.5) BUT please make it clear that this is deliberate in the book's text and DM's SHOULD make up whatever numbers they require based on this description. <br /><br /> Nothing like feeling like a bunch of stuff got axed and the book is just waiting for errata to be released to be playable.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14672917794716928287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-84199993308400575162011-03-10T23:49:37.417-08:002011-03-10T23:49:37.417-08:00Whoops! HD 2*, Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +1, and a DC ...Whoops! HD 2*, Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +1, and a DC 14 Will save.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07649420272387984400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-71711871113296261012011-03-10T23:17:59.351-08:002011-03-10T23:17:59.351-08:00*Kit, obviously...*Kit, obviously...C'nor (Outermost_Toe)https://www.blogger.com/profile/01580315916281876117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-50574174530126676812011-03-10T23:17:25.807-08:002011-03-10T23:17:25.807-08:00Looks good to me as an AD&D person. Still, I h...Looks good to me as an AD&D person. Still, I haven't read my monster manual in a while, so I could be missing something. <br /><br />I'd also like to add a dissenting opinion that the ecology would be nice if I wanted to take the weird things in the kt and stick them in my setting with a minimum of effort (say, right before a session). One other thing: Is there any way to look up the creatures by habitat? It could be nice to have a list of all sewer-dwelling beasts, or everything that's kept as a pet.C'nor (Outermost_Toe)https://www.blogger.com/profile/01580315916281876117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-36815572523125154032011-03-10T22:34:28.557-08:002011-03-10T22:34:28.557-08:00Save DC for monsters- how about using *s next to t...Save DC for monsters- how about using *s next to the hit dice, like in BECMI? You got the same XP for a 4** HD monster as a 6 HD monster- it was sorta an oldeschool take on CR. Save DC for monster powers equals 10 plus HD plus 2 per star.<br /><br /><br />Calculating monster's saves:<br /><br /><br />Looking up save DCs for a X-level character is gonna be slow, so include the formula for that. Good saves are 2 + HD/2 + 1 per star; bad saves are HD/3 + 1 per star. <br /><br />Most monsters have good Fort saves, unless they look or sound wimpy. Smart monsters also have good Will saves; fast or sneaky monsters have good Reflex saves. <br /><br />Sometimes you'll need to be able to figure out the abilities, so add a mechanism for that just in case.<br /><br />Str = Damage bonus, so +0 or 10.<br /><br />Initiative modifier= Dex so +1 or 12. <br /><br />Bonus hit points = Con modifier, so +0 or 10 .<br /><br />Int uses the same ranges as the old 1E Monster Manual numbers; Wis and Cha are 10 or Int, whichever is greater.<br /><br />So HD 2*, Fort +3, Ref +1, Will +1, and a DC 14 Will save.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07649420272387984400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-39150592337369702982011-03-10T21:45:50.238-08:002011-03-10T21:45:50.238-08:00@huth
@nick
I figure: AD&D GMs have to make u...@huth<br />@nick<br /><br />I figure: AD&D GMs have to make up monster DEX on the fly, everybody else should be able to. Maybe that defeats the purpose of playing 3.5 but whatever--point is nothing in the stats -contradicts- 3.5.<br /><br />As for DCs, I figure DC +12 gives us a DC of 14 for this peacock--which seems fair since it's a relatively weak monster.<br /><br />Also: in this particular product, almost nobody over 10 hd has anything you'd to save against, so the max save dc is 22, which seems like a decent "be-smart-or-get-screwed" price point for 7th level PCs--the highest level PCs who'd be tangling with these monsters.<br /><br />So basically the DCs go from 14-22 and PCs go from levels 1-7.<br /><br />That's worth adding to the post, I think, come to think of it.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-16834590378259689792011-03-10T21:23:43.131-08:002011-03-10T21:23:43.131-08:00To the extent that you're using 3.5's mech...To the extent that you're using 3.5's mechanics, like grapple, disarm, etc. huth has a point. Unless something exotic is going on, though, you can probably fudge it by just using the monster's melee attack bonus. The only problem I would expect is when your PCs use something like stat drain, but that might just not come up often enough to worry about.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07620731933909963904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-61684370186601448412011-03-10T21:19:41.951-08:002011-03-10T21:19:41.951-08:00If you resolve your Saving Throws like in v3.5 (d2...If you resolve your <b>Saving Throws</b> like in v3.5 (d20 + Ref/Fort/Will Bonus >= DC) then a "spell-like ability" like the peacock's fan should require a DC of 10+0.5*HD.<br /><br /><br />Talking about <b>Initiative</b>, if stats (in your game) give the same bonuses as for v3.5 progression (+1 each 2 stat points above 11, -1 each 2 stat points below 10) and if a PC's Dex affects in the same way AC and Initiative Bonus, then you can extract it looking at how Size Change influences a creature's AC.<br /><br /><i><br />Fine: +8<br />Diminutive: +4<br />Tiny: +2 <br />Small: +1<br />Medium: +0<br />Large: -1<br />Huge: -2<br />Gargantuan: -4<br />Colossal: -8</i><br /><br /><br />IMHO you can always drop -4 to -3 and -8 to -4 (in order to have not huge differences in Initiative) and/or adding a +1 shift to each value (so that a human-sized monster will have a +1 to Initiative) with no risks of a <i>butterfly effect</i>.Hamel™https://www.blogger.com/profile/10274145010591107989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-47680202827901890572011-03-10T21:19:17.031-08:002011-03-10T21:19:17.031-08:00Just found this blog, and I'm a 3.5 person, so...Just found this blog, and I'm a 3.5 person, so maybe I can help. I had to read through the comments a few times to figure out how you were doing things. I have to admit the idea of using the pre-statted characters in the DMG is quite elegant -- it will capture all the stuff about stats and even magic items so that things scale right. I would have never thought of that. <br /><br />The two things I see that are missing are, potentially, CR and save DCs (as mentioned above). <br /><br />CR may not matter, or it may be essentially the same as HD. <br /><br />As to save DCs. My concern is that 10+HD would end up being too high at some point. In 3.5, at least, hit dice scale very quickly, so that a CR X monster tends to have more than X hit dice. On average, this isn’t too bad. Looking at some stats someone calculated, the average CR 10 monster has 13 HD and a save DC of 19. <br /><br />So, I’d suggest maybe 8+HD, with an optional +2 for particularly potent powers like a dragon’s breath weapon. YMMV, though – if you’re custom making monsters or adapting them from older iterations of D&D where HD are more modest, your 10+HD may work just fine. <br /><br />You may be aware of this, and apologies if you are, but the rule of thumb in 3.5 is save DC = 10 + ½ hit dice or level + relevant stat modifier. Monsters of low CR tend to have more modest stats, so I’d expect this peacock, if it were a typical monster, to have save DCs of 11-13 depending on its stats. The 8+HD formula is going to be a little weak at the lower end but more balanced towards the higher numbers. <br /><br />I hope that helps. If you like, I could try and give you a rough and ready rule of thumb more in line w/ 3.5’s ½ hit dice measure, but it would depend on how you expect the hit dice of your monsters to scale. If your players are mostly going to be fighting monsters of HD = PC level, then 8 or even 10-12+HD should work fine. <br /><br />Sorry for a long post.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07620731933909963904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-53376789457359423372011-03-10T20:59:07.886-08:002011-03-10T20:59:07.886-08:00Again: if you are -actually running the game-, if ...<i>Again: if you are -actually running the game-, if I give you the bonuses and saves WHY would you need the stats they're derived from?</i><br /><br />All of the weird-ass crap that your players think of that might reference it. Brain-grappling checks. Ability drains. Templating. Who knows? 3e has a lot of weird shit. Just putting the modifiers in a line should work, though. Of the stats, a monster's WIS is the first I would be looking at in-game to determine behaviour in reaction to something.<br /><br />caveat: i have not run 3e in a million years.huthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16502682297320819595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-45347253836083997392011-03-10T18:47:16.733-08:002011-03-10T18:47:16.733-08:00@ravenconspiracy
did you read any of the comments...@ravenconspiracy<br /><br />did you read any of the comments yet?<br /><br />I know all that.<br /><br />Again: if you are -actually running the game-, if I give you the bonuses and saves WHY would you need the stats they're derived from?<br /><br />What would you actually DO with them, if the bonuses and saves are already calculated.<br /><br /><br />@Mange<br /><br />Since the only monsters in the kit are encountered in specific dungeons/situations, all that behavior/background stuff is superfluous in this adventure.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-21787814750791375392011-03-10T18:36:59.541-08:002011-03-10T18:36:59.541-08:00I figured this list might help anyone in the threa...I figured this list might help anyone in the thread who doesn't have the books handy.<br />A full 1st ed. AD&D listing from Monster Manual II:<br />Frequency<br /># appearing<br />AC<br />Move<br />HD<br />% in lair<br />Treasure type<br /># attacks<br />damage/attack<br />special attacks<br />special defenses<br />Magic resistance<br />Intelligence<br />Alignment<br />Size<br />Psionic ability<br />Level/XP val<br /><br />2nd ed.:<br />Climate/terrain<br />Frequency<br />Organization<br />Activity cycle<br />diet<br />Intelligence<br />Treasure<br />Alignment<br /># appearing<br />AC<br />THACO<br /># attacks<br />Damage/attack<br />Special attacks<br />Special defenses<br />MAgic resistance<br />Size<br />Morale<br />XP value<br /><br /><br />Since I only really run 2nd ed:<br /># appearing is usually helpful, if only as a guide. If I think the encounters have been too easy, I'll beef up the number appearing. I was always under the impression it was calculated based off an average party that the creature should encounter, but don't know the algorithm. Of course, if I'm looking more for atmosphere or a mere distraction, I might drop the number appearing, but the printed stats work for a guideline.<br /> Size is really important to my game, because I run a horror-flavored adventure, and messing with the perception of threat level vs size is effective against my players. Also, activity cycle and diet are useful, if only because I'm the type to give a nocturnal animal rabies and make the ranger roll perception to see if s/he picks up on it.<br />Habitat/Society/Ecology from the text is great for determining how to have the creatures act and what conditions they might encounter the players. Except flumphs. Fuck flumphs.<br /> What about immunity to magic, psionics, etc...the Monster Manuals usually list (from what I remember) either a percentage, or "nil." Also, uses of their body parts (a personal favorite), ecology and other flavoring text if you feel like it?<br /> And treasure found. Always gotta have treasure.Mangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01616674233659975494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-37099867982024457022011-03-10T18:35:20.284-08:002011-03-10T18:35:20.284-08:00For monsters, 2e has almost no meaningful differen...For monsters, 2e has almost no meaningful differences from 1e.<br /><br />In 3 and 3.5, the 6 stats are integral for monster saving throws, attack rolls and damage rolls. <br /><br />Also, 3e monsters have templates for base attack schemes and base saving throws (based on HD/level basically) which are more or less analogous to character classes. What I'm getting at is unlike monsters in older editions, monsters THACO (base attack bonus) varies by type as well as being modified by strength bonus (usually), not just HD like in old-school d&d. Also most monsters have several feats which effect how they fight.ravenconspiracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02213200607228975388noreply@blogger.com