tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post7772634533827985289..comments2024-03-19T16:24:23.777-07:00Comments on Playing D&D With Porn Stars: Stay In Your LaneZak Sabbathhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-55790696020891509292016-12-19T23:01:37.960-08:002016-12-19T23:01:37.960-08:00"The point of 'Nerd' is to keep these..."The point of 'Nerd' is to keep these two kinds of intellectuals separate"<br /><br />The split that 'Nerd' is trying to maintain is the split between producers and consumers of intellectual culture. <br /><br />Having the massively broad category 'Nerd' makes reading Black Panther comics feel similar to having a discussion on race; it makes listening to NPR feel like thinking. 'Nerd' not only keeps the Big Idea and the economic actors separate to prevent instability; it also tries to make the discussion of being an actor irrelevant. <br />jopolandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05703392647637338094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-43818454388944886292016-12-18T14:26:20.155-08:002016-12-18T14:26:20.155-08:00I am Spanish, I live in England, and I am a nerd. ...I am Spanish, I live in England, and I am a nerd. I work as an engineer, and though I deeply care about politics (Spanish, British and global) both in the immediate and in the philosophical sense, this entry has made me unsettled. I feel it's so true, it hurts. It makes so much sense and yet it comes as a surprise to me. <br /><br />I like to think that I am not completely fooled by capitalism, that I choose my own battles (the small ones: recycling, reutilizing, reducing; buying fair trade, supporting progressive media and NGOs), but I fear that I am exactly where it wants me: just vocal enough to placate myself but not to make a real change. <br /><br />I won't call myself a nerd anymore. I will be an intellectual. <br /><br />Thank you, Zak.Enzohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05040144888171294476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-19306545888507042252016-12-17T04:45:34.350-08:002016-12-17T04:45:34.350-08:00As to further clarify the point: the distinction b...As to further clarify the point: the distinction between "nerd" and "intellectual" in Brazil, in fact, did not exist until the last decades. However, it hasn't happened due to some dastardly influence from America, but as a change to the way to interpret said words.<br /> "Intellectual", in the older view, is someone with a college degree, and willingness to show this and their erudition in public. If their ideas are daring, it doesn't matter. Only the credentials.<br /> Our 'nerd-analogues', on the other hand, were never considered to be intellectuals; they just were those no-fun guys, sometimes interested in numbers. Overlap between the two doesn't happened in the public sphere.<br /> Even as college degrees became more common, the perception haven't changed. But when the idea of the nerd got traction due to influence of the internet, the media circus and, maybe, globalization, the older concept started to disappear. But as the result from the competition with another social norm, not that the nerd concept came to fill a vacuum.Marvin L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10542894257921346252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-9979580905870259502016-12-16T19:12:04.147-08:002016-12-16T19:12:04.147-08:00Badass/Good Work.Badass/Good Work.Mujadaddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07698839746240695386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-72999630770555450622016-12-16T16:56:04.229-08:002016-12-16T16:56:04.229-08:00Osterwell's article does nothing to address wh...Osterwell's article does nothing to address what "nerd" means--beyond briefly acknowledging different groups lay claim to the word for different reasons.<br />There's no explanation of _why_ such a word should cover a whole set of easily-identifiable personality characteristics that (even though early films mostly showed them in one race and gender) apply across race and gender categories.<br />What Velma and Lisa Simpson have in common with Egon is not remotely touched on--and in a piece called "what was the nerd" this is a tremendous failure.<br />In addition, much of it is taken up with repeating now-cliche 2-year old analysis of video game controversies (mostly derived from other, smarter, people) without investigating any of the things the ideas around the word "nerd" can tell us about it.<br />For example, both sides of that conflict were profoundly "nerdy" not just in the sense of liking video games, but in every way they expressed themselves and attacked each other. <br />It also doesn't address how these methods do or don't relate to the electoral-political methods of the right-wing groups that followed.<br />-<br />tl;dr It's lazy as shit.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-78783845088903910382016-12-16T16:03:45.985-08:002016-12-16T16:03:45.985-08:00I think the matter here is of semantics: the disti...I think the matter here is of semantics: the distinction between "nerd" and "intellectual" in Brazil didn't seems to exist due to the way the country 'produced' supposed intellectuals.<br /> In previous decades, the label "intellectual" were applied to any member to the upper classes that were in college, and could show this as a badge of wisdom. As a related thing, the label "Dr." were also applied to anyone who anyone "educated" (ie, with a diploma). So, many prestigious people ended up having degrees, which they used as credential for better careers - many famous journalists having degrees in Law and Philosophy come as a result of this.<br /> In the middle, there was the number-crunching middle class, those who cannot get to be engineers (a privilege) but ended as accountants, clerks and public workers. They never get prestige as intellectuals, yet received the same treatment related to the 'nerd experience' - the word wasn't know, but correlates ("CDF", "Caxias") were well-know and expressed the same feeling, that book-smarts people should resign themselves to their books and numbers, being not 'fun' at all.<br /> And for those lower in the totem pole, back-breaking jobs, as usual.<br /> This changed (not too much, but in a very noticiable sense) with the changes brought by the software industry and mechanization of society. Soon, those techies could become the new elites, even the new intellectuals. At the same time, and not coincidentally, the label "nerd" come in full force, together with lots of cultural baggage.Marvin L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10542894257921346252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-21286255539321939862016-12-16T15:27:45.219-08:002016-12-16T15:27:45.219-08:00I realize that you might not be interested in disc...I realize that you might not be interested in discussing the details of an article you so clearly dislike, but I'd be curious to know if there are specifics that you can point to in the Osterweil piece that are the centers of its shallowness. I would agree that the article does paint with a broad brush at times (often without links), but I found its use of specific films to be a grounded way of doing the history of "the nerd." I felt that the argument of the other piece was sympathetic to your own -- as both seem to be about how the construction of the nerd serves to reproduce certain types of power. This is largely economic in your case, and largely social (racial/gendered) in the case of Osterweil. Your piece references RPGs, while the other really lets video games stand in for most of "nerd culture," so I could see there are some points of departure there, but I'd still be curious to hear any specific critique on your part.prfdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10356009329443506599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-16154902134798418122016-12-16T08:01:49.245-08:002016-12-16T08:01:49.245-08:00I realize I can't edit, and that I may have re...I realize I can't edit, and that I may have replied to the wrong thing in the comment stream. Please bear with me...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04877441331905857202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-41600426700512178372016-12-16T07:54:40.913-08:002016-12-16T07:54:40.913-08:00This article was really good. I recognize this fro...This article was really good. I recognize this from in the STEM-field, but also among circles of people in humanities and art. The article is wonderfully motivational to people who would be traditionally seen as "smart people". I don't blame you for it, as I imagine the audience for this blog are mostly from a college background. The article mentions jocks in passing, but on the whole it makes me hungry for more from all strata of the working class. "Basic" comes to mind as a particular "stay-in-your-lane" stereotype designed to this to pretty much everyone. Interesting article. Left me hungry for more!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04877441331905857202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-61792967087820869012016-12-16T06:07:08.550-08:002016-12-16T06:07:08.550-08:00I think I have found the root of our disagreement:...I think I have found the root of our disagreement: There is many definitions of capitalism.<br />I use capitalism strictly within that basics concepts of market, private ownership, surplus production, etc.<br />You use capitalism with in a concept that intersects things like consumerism, corportativism, globalization, etc.<br />Using the concept of capitalism you are impling (cause neither are the only truth) I agree with the most part of your opinion.<br /><br />But my theory cannot be false because the "nerd" word should have existed as long as America.<br />I need to remind you that this hypercapitalism have emerged only after the industrial revolution with its middle class and mass production/consumption.<br />So it seems logical to me that "nerd" word emerged only in 1950 when the hypercapitalism is truly solidified and entrenched in the masses.<br /><br />Finally, I agree that it should be Americanism plus the forces you describe.G. B. Verashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07321019711309446662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-21673866283550287062016-12-16T06:06:46.798-08:002016-12-16T06:06:46.798-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.G. B. Verashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07321019711309446662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-68352403836184678212016-12-16T04:38:44.351-08:002016-12-16T04:38:44.351-08:00I think that it's impossible to disentangle th...I think that it's impossible to disentangle the influence of modern hypercapitalism from the influence of Americanism, as both have acted as carrier signals for each other.<br /><br />However: if your theory were wholly true, than the word "nerd" (and its connotations) would have existed for as long as America (ie since the 170os or 1800s)--not for as long as America's undisputed technological pre-eminence (ie since 1950).<br /><br />So you must be wrong. Either its due to forces I describe or Americanism PLUS the forces I describe.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-4616066030858574612016-12-16T04:34:17.659-08:002016-12-16T04:34:17.659-08:00This is one of the very few times I have to disagr...This is one of the very few times I have to disagree with you.<br />The division between nerds and intellectuals is not a problem of capitalism itself but a problem of the American culture as you said later.<br />Here in Brazil, we started experiencing this kind of problem only in the last few years and mostly because only now we are importing the American-culture en masse.<br />The problem you describe is spreading here since we become a globalized country with our digital revolution in the last decade.<br />People 25yo and older are very aware of this because back in their teens only intellectuals existed.<br />Anyone with a minimum intellectual capacity are very much annoyed with that problem because we grown up without labels in our forehead.G. B. Verashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07321019711309446662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-64478922108812694172016-12-16T01:27:27.738-08:002016-12-16T01:27:27.738-08:00If the split is very American it is--as I said--a ...If the split is very American it is--as I said--a product of american anti-intellectualismZak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-74028548780394634752016-12-16T01:26:24.428-08:002016-12-16T01:26:24.428-08:00It's not really relevant--the rest of the arti...It's not really relevant--the rest of the article is so shallow it's like spotting a typo in a 3rd grader's term paper.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-12741639297465162682016-12-16T01:25:30.551-08:002016-12-16T01:25:30.551-08:00I don't know about this "nerd/jock" ...I don't know about this "nerd/jock" thing. I do know that the least intelligent nerds online consistently behave with a consistent set of bad, stereotyped behaviorsZak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-5560550788832700592016-12-16T01:06:42.596-08:002016-12-16T01:06:42.596-08:00Seems the article is also factually incorrect, the...Seems the article is also factually incorrect, there apparently is a link between being perceived as nerdy and bullying.<br /><br />Perhaps due to the articles focus on colleges, and not high schools, and I think the nerd/jock division is more pronounced in high schools. And there seems to be more bullying on high schools than there is in colleges/universities. Probably due to high school kids being young. So if the article only looked at the bully stats for college aged kids that might explain why it says nerdyness is not a factor. As I expect you get bullied for it less the older people get.Soyweiserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07530201773972687532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-44988327416315513362016-12-16T00:46:02.071-08:002016-12-16T00:46:02.071-08:00I always found this nerd/jock divide to be very Am...I always found this nerd/jock divide to be very American.<br /><br />Is it really as bad as they show in the movies/media/entertainment?<br /><br />When I was young, some of our 'jocks' also played magic the gathering. And our comic book stores and gaming stores, while at times having strange people in them, are mostly filled with normal people who just like to play games or read comics.<br /><br />They do tend to look a bit more counterculture than average) but little of these 'big bang theory' stereotypes.Soyweiserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07530201773972687532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-17226184465919507442016-12-15T18:48:17.020-08:002016-12-15T18:48:17.020-08:00Holy shit. This is possibly the best thing you hav...Holy shit. This is possibly the best thing you have written yet. <br />Parvel Shunkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11797860937349949157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-15144656942263315212016-12-15T18:33:22.872-08:002016-12-15T18:33:22.872-08:00God I hope not. Part of the reason I wrote this wa...God I hope not. Part of the reason I wrote this was the shallowness and reliance on received wisdom and generality in articles like the one you just linked.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-55125438790542887322016-12-15T18:28:41.832-08:002016-12-15T18:28:41.832-08:00I find this a very well expressed point. For those...I find this a very well expressed point. For those interested in the cultural history of "the nerd," I have found this piece - http://reallifemag.com/what-was-the-nerd/ - by Willie Osterweil, to be a similarly well written approach to many of the same themes.prfdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10356009329443506599noreply@blogger.com