tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post5725617908698902443..comments2024-03-19T16:24:23.777-07:00Comments on Playing D&D With Porn Stars: Some Trap TheoryZak Sabbathhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-27880765935546567292013-01-06T04:45:59.718-08:002013-01-06T04:45:59.718-08:00Sounds like a DM Intention of Resource Management:...Sounds like a DM Intention of Resource Management: DM Patience. As in, you guys were searching for traps and secrets everywhere and the DM was tired of the 500 rolls so he threw in a Spite Trap. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-65307664455670369332011-06-21T22:54:08.267-07:002011-06-21T22:54:08.267-07:00Yeah, I guess in the end you are right, it is a te...Yeah, I guess in the end you are right, it is a test of luck. Our thief was pretty good about checking for traps on doors and new areas all the time, and there were no clues at all. It was also the only time we ever came across that specific trap.Craig A. Glesnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06696516342754954732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-17721034640447524302011-06-21T22:43:29.176-07:002011-06-21T22:43:29.176-07:00Personally though, if there are no clues, it sound...Personally though, if there are no clues, it sounds like a test of luck.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-68418974595375537642011-06-21T22:42:56.955-07:002011-06-21T22:42:56.955-07:00@craig
I suppose, since it requires NOT checking ...@craig<br /><br />I suppose, since it requires NOT checking for traps it might be considered a test of boldness.<br /><br />Though if there were more than one of them, it might behoove you to take the caution of NOT looking for traps thereafter which would therefore turn it into a test of caution.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-39291907754963211512011-06-21T22:38:27.229-07:002011-06-21T22:38:27.229-07:00Not sure where this one fits, since I don't se...Not sure where this one fits, since I don't see "The DM is a dick!" category, but one of the worst traps our group ever encountered was the infamous Contingency Trap with the Contingency being "If this trap is searched for, it goes off." <br /><br />Funny thing is the thief who set it off made his save and one of the other PCs in range didn't and ended up being teleported into a room with a monster he had to face by himself. <br /><br />I thought it was both pretty cruel and awfully useful, though we players were never sure if it was entirely "legal" under the 3.0/5 Rules.Craig A. Glesnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06696516342754954732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-23255400762147352952011-06-19T23:38:22.418-07:002011-06-19T23:38:22.418-07:00Mischievious/Insane Traps
Sidenote: these are alm...<i>Mischievious/Insane Traps<br /><br />Sidenote: these are almost always magical, so the area of entirely mechanical traps that are still just there to fuck with you is relatively underexplored territory. At least in published books.</i><br /><br />The example I always think of is the boxing glove on a spring, or related jackassery.Welcome to Dungeon!https://www.blogger.com/profile/14346914156633328775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-50577991321215377232011-06-19T14:13:47.856-07:002011-06-19T14:13:47.856-07:00Personally, I think all traps should be testable a...Personally, I think all traps should be testable and clued, although the party may not know how to test, or the clue might not be obvious (or not in that location.) So those categories aren't as useful to me.<br /><br />I'm also more inclined to a functional division, which is why <a href="http://9and30kingdoms.blogspot.com/2010/09/hazard-puzzle-trap-trick.html" rel="nofollow">I consider traps and tricks related (because they are both triggered,) but quite distinct.</a> A trap may be hidden or obvious, and its result may be hidden or obvious; a trick always *seems* to have one result (the bait,) but delivers a different result (the switch.) The in-game and meta-game reasons behind the trap or trick are layered on top of this; even for natural ("spider") traps, you can have hidden webs that the victim stumbles into or treasure dangling as bait to lure a victim into a hard-to-see web.Talysmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02162328521343832412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-32030988082045310342011-06-19T13:41:52.291-07:002011-06-19T13:41:52.291-07:00Thanks for this, Zak. Was going to add it to the ...Thanks for this, Zak. Was going to add it to the wikilinks thing, but someone beat me to it.trollsmythhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01895349218958093151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-65518517009710048062011-06-19T12:02:37.667-07:002011-06-19T12:02:37.667-07:00@Sethor
Added.@Sethor<br /><br />Added.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-60219378961393292642011-06-19T12:01:49.088-07:002011-06-19T12:01:49.088-07:00@JasonZavoda
The questin of "does the trap m...@JasonZavoda<br /><br />The questin of "does the trap make sense" is a good one, but since it's fairly easy to make up an answer and (say) stick a secret door in front of the room that has the trap I would say answering that question doesn't get us as far down the path of designing an actual trap as the questions:<br /><br />why is the villain putting it there? and<br />Wwhy is the DM putting it there?<br /><br />I mean, there are a million other questions you could ask: where did the material come from? What happens to the remains of the trap victims? etc. and answering these COULD provide useful design fuel, but I feel like answering the above questions HAS TO provide useful design fuel.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-76798871820253970992011-06-19T11:40:10.761-07:002011-06-19T11:40:10.761-07:00ObNerd: Nitric acid + sulfiric acid + *glycerin* =...ObNerd: Nitric acid + sulfiric acid + *glycerin* = nitroglycerin. However, nitric acid + cotton does make guncotton, and both these recipies are STUPIDLY unstable and explosive without very carefully controlled temperature and lack of motion.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07649420272387984400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-59148777415917839262011-06-19T11:39:07.885-07:002011-06-19T11:39:07.885-07:00Good examples of why you bring henchmen into a dun...Good examples of why you bring henchmen into a dungeon. <br /><br />When I read the title I was thinking more of a list of categories related to the mechanics of the traps rather than the philosophy of the traps. Quite a bit of overlap between categories since non-traps can still be testable and will have reasons why both the DM and the NPC will have placed them.<br /><br />Most traps are testable, for example the difference between a teleporter and a sphere of annihilation is easy to define by how much of the henchmen gets disintegrated before you pull him out. <br /><br />One basic design philosophy and dungeon (or whatever setting) ecology that I've almost always seen ignored is a question of how the inhabitants of the setting make it past these traps? In a static setting there is certainly no problem, but in a dynamic setting with living creatures it strains the suspension of disbelief. Did I miss this? Is there a mention here of Does the Trap Placement make sense?Jason Zavodahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109502376214104276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-35020859202717640242011-06-19T08:24:34.140-07:002011-06-19T08:24:34.140-07:00I'm not sure if this fits but I've used tr...I'm not sure if this fits but I've used traps I would classify as tests of education. These could fit into several categories but the intent of the trap builder was to educate those caught by it. A classic example would be a thieves gauntlet which refines the skills of their guild members. It does harm, but only enough harm to make sure they remember it.<br /><br />Or alternatively these tests of education might result in something highly annoying. My favorite was the sticky doorknob that injected a needle, drew blood, enchanted said blood with continual light and then reinjected it. Voila, lightly glowing thief. Obviously someone with the capability to accomplish such an elaborate trap could simply execute the person but this performs a different goal.<br /><br />A great number of ritual and worthiness traps might fall under this concept, particularly right of passage or graduation tests.Sethorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10382831110219037781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-34991832880830550352011-06-19T08:22:43.370-07:002011-06-19T08:22:43.370-07:00A more exhaustive examination of trap logic I have...A more exhaustive examination of trap logic I have never read. This is fantastic. I am bookmarking this and if I'm smart I'll come back to it every time I design a dungeon with a trap in it so that I can reflect on why on earth the trap is there.Brandonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00435243803003028117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-1448535807623188552011-06-19T03:36:32.137-07:002011-06-19T03:36:32.137-07:00Good one, Richard, added.Good one, Richard, added.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-47004264034418677112011-06-19T03:34:58.439-07:002011-06-19T03:34:58.439-07:00This is a really thorough and useful theoretical w...This is a really thorough and useful theoretical workthrough. Thanks. Added to the wiki. I don't see anyone else doing this stuff.<br /><br />Thoroughness admits no value judgments. I hope you don't mind my adding one: several of the categories of tests you mention dispirit me. I've played in games that deliberately tested my thoroughness and shopping skills and personally, for me, that's not where the fun is (usual caveat: yes I know that's not true for many other folks. My way is not objectively better). So I've been thinking about why one would add poison darts or pits or weak bridges - basically "did you bring a pole?" traps - and I think the answer is mostly atmosphere (that you mention) and conditioning. You're teaching the players about the intention behind the environment. Maybe to bait-and-switch (your killer trap, above) but I would hope rather to provide clues as to the whole, underlying theme. Or uberpuzzle maybe. Traps as exposition.<br /><br />Another category? Party co-operation traps. Every episode of Sailor Moon or G-Force is this: work together or fail. I thought this was where you were going with the chlorine maze - you've added a time limit to the dungeon, now they have to guess and map and shout their way out. Or rope together to scale the slippery wall, or extraordinary trust/sacrifice traps: one PC has to drown/catch on fire to hit the magic button, and trust his mates will save/resurrect him.richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-28337029384798834992011-06-19T03:27:17.296-07:002011-06-19T03:27:17.296-07:00Yeah, I agree with your addendum.Yeah, I agree with your addendum.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07090296806321882601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-52118249502220976252011-06-19T03:26:20.821-07:002011-06-19T03:26:20.821-07:00I think the biggest difference I've found betw...I think the biggest difference I've found between the two is that the caution trap has most of its effect after the trap is set off - it causes some difficulty for the party, and makes them look funny at other doors and corridors for a while, and generally behave more cautiously.<br /><br />The curiosity trap has most of its effect before it's set off. The party sees the trap, and then starts arguing about it. One person might try to set it off, and the others have to sit on him/her. Madcap schemes are formulated to lure hapless dungeon residents to the trap and have them set it off.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07090296806321882601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-68591432569198083962011-06-19T03:21:58.213-07:002011-06-19T03:21:58.213-07:00@john
addendum added--does that look right?@john<br />addendum added--does that look right?Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-46525553816731898552011-06-19T03:18:49.565-07:002011-06-19T03:18:49.565-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07090296806321882601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-3274077698856561862011-06-19T03:14:37.993-07:002011-06-19T03:14:37.993-07:00No, wait, thought about it-- I'm wrong. Addend...No, wait, thought about it-- I'm wrong. Addendum added.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-11411711221307762572011-06-19T02:55:24.148-07:002011-06-19T02:55:24.148-07:00@john
Though that's definitely a kind of trap...@john<br /><br />Though that's definitely a kind of trap, it isn't distinct from other traps in terms of Why It's There:<br /><br />From the DM's point of view: If something bad happens when you hit the big red button it's a test of caution, if something good happens it's a test of boldness and if nothing happens it's a pseudotrap.<br /><br />From the villain's point of view it's either a mischievous trap or a test of intention.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-55505491710930043852011-06-19T02:50:17.273-07:002011-06-19T02:50:17.273-07:00There's another category of traps that you did...There's another category of traps that you didn't mention, although it's related to the caution trap: the curiosity trap. <br /><br />This is where there's a mechanism with a clear means of activation, but no way of knowing what it does (i.e. it's untestable). It's obviously a trap, the players <i>know</i> it's a trap, and you just fucking <i>dare</i> them to activate it anyway.<br /><br />Examples: the bell and hammer with a little plaque reading "please do not ring this bell", the Big Red Button, the door with all the locks on the <i>outside</i>, etc.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07090296806321882601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-32053271261925151842011-06-19T02:19:01.438-07:002011-06-19T02:19:01.438-07:00thanks!
Stairs? Yeah.
Unless the fall could kill...thanks!<br /><br />Stairs? Yeah.<br /><br />Unless the fall could kill you or something.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-46131417975407699782011-06-19T02:13:38.054-07:002011-06-19T02:13:38.054-07:00Would the classic stairs-that-turn-into-a-slide co...Would the classic stairs-that-turn-into-a-slide count as a mechanical mischievous trap?<br /><br />This is useful, thanks. I really like traps and puzzles, but I've always had some trouble building them, as I tend to overthink them.thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.com