tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post398616961162520584..comments2024-03-28T17:27:58.052-07:00Comments on Playing D&D With Porn Stars: O Monsters Are Not Like You and IZak Sabbathhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-63531974354513943552010-04-19T16:56:13.622-07:002010-04-19T16:56:13.622-07:00You didn't have to call us stupid and neandert...You didn't have to call us stupid and neanderthalish. Tears....Quilt City O.G.R.E.shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13484691975453034121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-26018199409296797532010-04-14T12:44:42.577-07:002010-04-14T12:44:42.577-07:00Right. Guess I misread that somehow. Happens to me...Right. Guess I misread that somehow. Happens to me all the time when someone mentions the octopi...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-32578620722248968832010-04-14T08:23:50.809-07:002010-04-14T08:23:50.809-07:00I once played an AD&D ogre who was blessed/cur...I once played an AD&D ogre who was blessed/cursed with the gift of prophecy as a joke by the head Elven god Corellon. It was fun playing a single/simple-minded creature who would suddenly spout words from the divine. Naturally, those words got him kicked out of his tribe. He ended up as a knowing priest of Corellon and came across as a Southern Baptist preacher who only knew how to proselytize (poorly) and bash people's heads in. I recreated him in a 3.5 game as a Favoured Soul, but never got to the place where he grew wings. I really wanted him to have wings.Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04609795745010015616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-3182724938213117822010-04-14T06:05:21.473-07:002010-04-14T06:05:21.473-07:00I'm with Talysman on the magic using Ogre. The...I'm with Talysman on the magic using Ogre. The Spiderwick Chronicles has a similar feel, though one could also say he resembles the original Scandanavian faerie Troll more than what we tend to think of as an Ogre.Adam Dicksteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04840144928096089178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-44778402975738948232010-04-14T01:27:44.090-07:002010-04-14T01:27:44.090-07:00@Bastian
yes, obviously "orc" was an und...@Bastian<br />yes, obviously "orc" was an understandable word to d&D people. but obviously that;s not at all who I'm talking about. Both in the comment and the main text, I'm talking about the general populace.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-18912921766830463302010-04-14T00:54:20.067-07:002010-04-14T00:54:20.067-07:00In fairie-tale terms, ogres are a symbol of cannib...In fairie-tale terms, ogres are a symbol of cannibalism (kind of like the wendigo in Algonquian culture), but especially cannibalistic adults in relation to children (I always think of Francisco de Goya's painting of Saturn). If you look at most ogres or ogre-like behaviour in Grimm's and similar sources, then often the ogre is not even all that large - just large when compared to the children they have trapped. Things like witches and hags are closely related to ogres in this way, to the point of overlapping with them. <br /><br />Ogres are the child's fear of adults.<br /><br />I'd like to note that I have always found the word ogress more scary than ogre. The weird mix of maternal and cannibalistic behaviour is particularly unsettling.<br /><br />In any case, fantasy ogres should be large for the purpose of making the heroes feel like children. It might be interesting to find additional ways to do this - having the ogre care for and feed his/her captives first, á la Hansel and Gretel, or making ogres be the human progenitor race. Something to imply that ogres have a parental streak gone wrong.<br /><br />---<br /><br />Giant Owl - for me the scariest thing about an owl is the sound it makes and its silent flight. The stealthiest of all birds, it really should be a snatch-and-run beastie. First sign of one is when your hireling disappears into the night sky.<br /><br />There may be extra mileage in the owls' association with the strix and strigoi.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06011974487836242987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-4801828137965969102010-04-14T00:51:23.446-07:002010-04-14T00:51:23.446-07:00Octopi certainly are cute and cuddly. And smart, a...Octopi certainly are cute and cuddly. And smart, as Rick has already mentioned. Much smarter than their ten-armed cousins. Some subspecies also have poisonous bite. And they often like to travel across the land, being the smart and curious sort. <br />As to the word "orc" - it certainly was an understandable word for people who were interested in fantasy stuff like, I don't know, D&D long before the movies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-25606628668300748952010-04-14T00:29:49.262-07:002010-04-14T00:29:49.262-07:00I love bright green football hooligan orks! They&#...I love bright green football hooligan orks! They're what make the <i>Warhammer</i> settings distinctive. Well, them and the grime and mud and political corruption and religious intolerance and the diseases and the Aztec space lizards and the rat men.thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-90599561104677958092010-04-14T00:11:29.923-07:002010-04-14T00:11:29.923-07:00Orcs are cool as long as they aren't green. Br...Orcs are cool as long as they aren't green. Bright green football hooligan orcs are something I can't stand. Without them Warhammer would be unsullied in its awesomeness.<br /><br />@Adam Thornton<br /><br />Great story. Yes, otyughs are cool in that particular way which is why I don't go to the toilet in the dark.Tom Fitzgeraldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14893168729760333884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-78203474600131212010-04-13T21:19:04.585-07:002010-04-13T21:19:04.585-07:00Agreed about the Anglo-Saxon origins of orc, but I...Agreed about the Anglo-Saxon origins of orc, but I hold a heretical view that it did not come from Latin or Greek but rather from Orkney, dating back to a possibly mythological time when the Orkney Islanders were mighty sea pirates who ruled the Atlantic coasts and scared the classical Greeks away from passing the rocks of Gibraltar.<br /><br />Whether or not it's true, it's an interesting idea. Although the modern conception of orcs as crude might-makes-right personified is very handy, I like the alternative idea of orcs as primarily mighty sea pirates who terrify every other sea-faring people.<br /><br />===<br /><br />Also, snaps for the octopus, much of whose nervous-system control resides not in their central brain but in each of their arms, making each arm like a semi-independent creature. Having nine quasi-brains all working on a problem; now that's parallel processing.<br /><br />They are MUCH smarter than squids, cool though squids undoubtedly are. On the other hand, much weirdness of octopus behavior makes sense if their arms can each decide to do something different.<br /><br />Also, octopus psychology is so different from ours. That octopuses can squeeze themselves through narrow fissures is amazing, that their bodies are so much more liquid than solid, and that they can move that fluid around within themselves so much more dramatically and voluntarily than we do. There's evidence that they see everything outside themselves also in terms of flows (reasonable for an aquatic creature). Imagine how they see us.<br /><br />Imagine, too, being that smart but only living for a couple years. Innocents indeed.Rick Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707062453047354335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-28079503802402820052010-04-13T20:47:55.453-07:002010-04-13T20:47:55.453-07:00Well, time for my otyugh story, because, really, w...Well, time for my otyugh story, because, really, when else?<br /><br />So, back in 1999 (maybe 2000) I was just getting rolling on what would be the Nine Hills Dairy campaign. <br /><br />The thing is, the Dairy controls the supply of the Black Cheese (like a tainted meat, overpoweringly delicious, yet nauseating, so that the eaters eat, and vomit, and eat again, until they fall exhausted), except that it was also a powerful laxative (so in that sense, an antiheroin).<br /><br />The Dairy would get a village hooked on the Cheese, and in the bottom of the taverns' privies, they would plant modified Otyughs with needle-tentacles that would inject the hapless crapper with the Back Orifice Virus, which would make them susceptible to remote control (I told you this was 1999).<br /><br />The grandiosely-named Hamlet of Village, where this took place, was a mash-up of 2600 and William S. Burroughs. It was great fun. It was also totally ignored by my players, who decided to go to work for Nine Hills rather than their opponents, Halo Farms.<br /><br />Except for Buddy the Druid, who just turned into a Cheese Fiend.<br /><br />Anyway, my point: otyughs are cool in an anal-violation-on-the-toilet kinda way. Don't sell them short.Adam Thorntonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06368676086759298705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-65072640709667413812010-04-13T19:23:03.956-07:002010-04-13T19:23:03.956-07:00As someone who as studied Japanese drama, I wish t...As someone who as studied Japanese drama, I wish to disagree with just about everything you say about the venerable Ogre Mage.<br /><br />In the first place, it isn't really a random coincidence that it got tagged as an ogre. "Ogre" was a common translation of 鬼 in the past because "demon", like "devil" associated too strongly with Christian themes. Though Buddhism interpreted 鬼 as being the inhabitants of Buddhist hell, their possession of magic powers don't always seem to be associated with hellishness, or even diabolical, just cruel, bloodthirsty, and inimical to human suffering. They have magical qualities, sure—but this is Japan, where even goldfish are magical.<br /><br />Secondly, 鬼 are in some ways MORE uncomfortably like us, since in many legends and especially Noh dramas, characters who behave viciously or lose control of themselves may TURN INTO 鬼. See, for example, Dojoji, the legend of Ajari Joan, etc. Actually, this would make a really cool mechanic for treating clerics who disregard their religion's strictures: not only do they risk losing their powers, but they could even lose their humanity as well. Although, knowing your players, that might be considered a reward, not a punishment...Menace 3 Societyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10697437012473847456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-35119131200575065592010-04-13T18:35:21.716-07:002010-04-13T18:35:21.716-07:00@Pere Ubu: The Cold Woman has a bit part in the st...<b>@Pere Ubu:</b> The Cold Woman has a bit part in the story <i>Stardock</i> in the <i>Swords against Wizardry</i> collection. I'm not sure if it reappears elsewhere, although somewhere in <i>Swords against Ice Magic</i> would seem the obvious place...Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04072272223837426211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-67033899377477048512010-04-13T18:26:58.997-07:002010-04-13T18:26:58.997-07:00I like Owlbear, though I think it could use anoth...I like Owlbear, though I think it could use another name. <br /><br />Its a big mammal predator mixed with a scary avian predator.<br /><br />Owlbear is just another variant on the eagle-lion(griffon) and still way cooler than the fucked-up-duck-beaver-thing(Platypus)Zzarchovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07714805545939725730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-69833505422870465182010-04-13T18:16:01.091-07:002010-04-13T18:16:01.091-07:00The only ogre mage my players ever faced was, of c...The only ogre mage my players ever faced was, of course, named Mr. Sparkle. That's all I have to add, and for that I apologize.SirAllenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11106665195318475302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-49244958453567554932010-04-13T17:20:13.175-07:002010-04-13T17:20:13.175-07:00@tom maybe later
@pere
cold woman's in Deitie...@tom maybe later<br /><br />@pere<br />cold woman's in Deities and Demigods and Lankhmar: City of AdventureZak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-6240542783149109262010-04-13T16:55:25.857-07:002010-04-13T16:55:25.857-07:00WHICH Lankhmar book? I've been trying to locat...WHICH Lankhmar book? I've been trying to locate Cold Woman in the canon for ages!Pere Ubuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03553973043509436168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-35779639818202331522010-04-13T16:50:01.885-07:002010-04-13T16:50:01.885-07:00Mind sharing your thoughts concerning Gravity'...Mind sharing your thoughts concerning Gravity's Rainbow and D&D?Gabriel Idahohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00162781430088524136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-65423400339906146962010-04-13T15:51:38.636-07:002010-04-13T15:51:38.636-07:00@olvidado
ok.
but i still maintain that "or...@olvidado<br />ok. <br /><br />but i still maintain that "orc" wasn't really a "word" in the sense of "a commonly understood verbal designation for an idea that i can assume other english speakers my age generally understand" until the movies came out.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-23990385440789852852010-04-13T15:44:46.864-07:002010-04-13T15:44:46.864-07:00There's a theory that the word 'Ogre' ...There's a theory that the word 'Ogre' comes from the Byzantine 'Ogur', for Hungarian. Which always made me think of them as something like <a href="http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8823/ag27hb.jpg" rel="nofollow">this.</a><br /><br />And owls are horrifying. Especially after reading The Owl Service by Alan Garner. Also the tower of flints in Gormenghast and Lord Groan. And Mrs Frisby and the Rats of NIMH. Oh and Squirrel Nutkin by Beatrix Potter.<br /><br />You laugh! But read that story again and suddenly you see a whole new side to it. The squirrels sail to an island every year to collect the nuts that grow there, and in order to supplicate the owl that lives there they bring sacrifices of mice and small animals for the owl. Yeah, the same animals that are wearing clothes and making pies in the other stories. Of course Squirrel Nutkin annoys it and gets his tail bitten off as a result, which I feel is getting off lightly, considering.Urscahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15123616050267824343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-16483276909264490222010-04-13T15:35:14.532-07:002010-04-13T15:35:14.532-07:00You seem to credit Tolkien overmuch: he did not in...You seem to credit Tolkien overmuch: he did not in any sense invent the word "orc", nor did Jackson make it a "word", it having been in use for centuries before either took first breath. Sylvester's _Deuine Weekes_ as translated by G de S du Bartas gave, II. i. 337, "Insatiate Orque, that euen at one repast, Almost all creatures in the World would waste" in 1605. Jump forward 51 years and find Holland's _Don Zara_, I. i. 6, with "Who at one stroke didst pare away three heads from off the shoulders of an Orke, begotten by an Incubus." In 1854, Putnam's Monthly for October had a remark about "The elves and the nickers, the orcs and the giants"; and in 1865, Kingsley's _Hereward_, I. i. 71, "But beyond, things unspeakable--dragons, giants, orcs,". All precede Tolkien's use in 1937 and beyond. In a letter c. 1954, Tolkien noted that as he used it, "the word is as far as I am concerned actually derived from Old English", yet it is not so. The Old English, orcneas, has more the meaning of evil spirits or walking dead, thus in Beowulf, ealle onwocon, eotenas ond ylfe ond orcneas, swylce gigantas, þa wið Gode wunnon ("all were born, ogres and elves and evil phantoms and the giants too who strove with god"; the old English eoten used here in the plural is derived from the proto-Germanic etunaz, which also gave rise to OE "ent" [D&D "treant"] and Old Norse "jotunn", while eoten itself is the etymological origin of "ettin"). Whereas the orc as generally understood in western literature is more from Italian orco, a man-eating giant, derived, like ogre itself, from Latin Orcus. See the OED.<br /><br />Furthering the amusement, orc is also a _verb_, meaning to make an orc or monster of, attested as early as 1631 in Fletcher's _Sicelides_, "I Orkt you once, and Ile fit you for a Cupid."<br /><br />@Barking Alien - the orc sea monster is still in use today as the name of the Orca, the killer whale. It's distinguished in OED as a different use and etymology of the orc under consideration here (the sea creature being orc1, the humanoid, orc2).olvidadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08276386323198451814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-32906712942595325732010-04-13T15:11:39.635-07:002010-04-13T15:11:39.635-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Jeffrey Runokivihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10067752574382856219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-40495616330347322022010-04-13T15:10:46.754-07:002010-04-13T15:10:46.754-07:00I also like to think of Orc in terms of William Bl...I also like to think of Orc in terms of William Blake's Red Orc, a savage, rebellious god.<br /><br />As for Ogre Magi, when I think "magic-using ogre", my first thought is the shape-changing ogre from <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puss_in_boots" rel="nofollow">Puss in Boots</a>.Talysmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02162328521343832412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-91848413946352928292010-04-13T14:43:04.391-07:002010-04-13T14:43:04.391-07:00The word 'Ork' does have magical and mythi...The word 'Ork' does have magical and mythical origins, just not the kind we would expect given its current frame of reference.<br /><br />Thanks to Tolkien, Gygax, Jackson and World of Warcraft, not to mention Warhammer, even thouse usually in the know about obscure mythical monsters will forever equate 'Orc' with "various races of tough and warlike humanoid creatures in various fantasy settings." (Searching Google for 'Orc' Wiki entry).<br /><br />In Greek Mythology, an Ork was a type of sea monster. It is mentioned in the Legends of Charlemagne as part of Bulfinch's Mythology (the collected works of Thomas Bulfinch).Adam Dicksteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04840144928096089178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-25564152186525647372010-04-13T14:33:15.500-07:002010-04-13T14:33:15.500-07:00I've always kind of looked at ogre magi as an ...I've always kind of looked at ogre magi as an early example of a monster that toys with player expectations. "Everyone knows" ogres are dumb and brutish, so making one a magic-user is intended to catch players by surprise. I genuinely think the oni connection was largely superficial, something Gary or whoever added to give a veneer of "realism" to what likely originated for very game-specific reasons. <br /><br />For what it's worth, my ogre magi aren't in any way "Japanese," despite the MM entry. I play them as weird ogre "mutants," who've somehow gained higher intelligence, magical powers, and a tendency toward order (their alignment is <i>Lawful</i> Evil rather than Chaotic), which is why "normal" ogres hate and fear them.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.com