tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post3393279879797241021..comments2024-03-19T16:24:23.777-07:00Comments on Playing D&D With Porn Stars: Roleplaying Games As Degenerate ArtZak Sabbathhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comBlogger93125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-80353940158880333072019-01-11T20:19:48.255-08:002019-01-11T20:19:48.255-08:00@anonymous
No—it seems like you didn’t read what ...@anonymous<br /><br />No—it seems like you didn’t read what i wrote.<br /><br />i didn’t say anything about how many studies were done, i said those were two of the benefits. <br /><br />if you need information on studies the best source i know of is Nina Hartley. She’s on twitter you can ask her.<br />Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-9240725632748660342019-01-11T20:13:08.682-08:002019-01-11T20:13:08.682-08:00And the only ones you can cite are orgies? And one...And the only ones you can cite are orgies? And one person got a better body image.<br /><br />Are you saying no one has empirically or epidemiologically studied the effects of porn?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-24836889061602360152019-01-11T20:09:10.342-08:002019-01-11T20:09:10.342-08:00@anonymous
its grammatically ambiguous whether th...@anonymous<br /><br />its grammatically ambiguous whether those are synonymous questions or not but if you were trying to ask for ALL the observable benefits of porn (or any genre) then i dont know and neither does anyone else.<br /><br />what are ALL the benefits of noir? Ealing comedies?<br /><br />The best i can do is list some and go “there may be others”Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-82073039853957209402019-01-11T20:03:53.191-08:002019-01-11T20:03:53.191-08:00I asked "what are" not "is there an...I asked "what are" not "is there any". Please go back and reread.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-10864719328556855012019-01-11T14:51:27.493-08:002019-01-11T14:51:27.493-08:00@anonymous
two important things:
-The question I...@anonymous<br /><br />two important things:<br /><br />-The question I was asked was "is there any?" not "please give ALL". 1 accurate anecdote is sufficient to answer an "is there any" question.<br /><br />-Studies do not conclusively say "all porn makes men more misogynist and less sympathetic to rape" at all. At the absolute most, some studies show that _some_ specific incidents of porn make men who already have some other problem behave worse.<br /><br />So in effect you're asking "How do you weigh the benefits of books against the fact that some books encourage some bad people to act bad?"<br /><br />Friar's claim "porn is a net negative" has exactly as much standing as "books are net negative".Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-62002787617336793182019-01-11T14:43:38.671-08:002019-01-11T14:43:38.671-08:00How do you way those 2 anecdotes against all the e...How do you way those 2 anecdotes against all the empirical published studies that say porn makes men more misogynist and less sympathetic to rape?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-79862118441771757572019-01-11T14:10:19.589-08:002019-01-11T14:10:19.589-08:00@anonymous
They are if the question being investi...@anonymous<br /><br />They are if the question being investigated is in the form "Is/are there any..."<br /><br />Like "Are there any benefits to having your apartment there?" An observed single incident of a benefit proves the proposition, "Yes, one time I ordered a pizza and it was free because I was so close to the pizza place"<br /><br />"Are there any police on your block?""Yes I just saw one"<br /><br />etc<br /><br />Anecdotes are only not evidence if:<br /><br />a) theyre not true (in this case they are) or<br /><br />b) the question is not in a form where its basically asking "does x exist"<br /><br />The question I was asked was whether benefits exist.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-28793895429668808522019-01-11T14:04:42.027-08:002019-01-11T14:04:42.027-08:00@anonymous
They are if the question being investi...@anonymous<br /><br />They are if the question being investigated is in the form "I there any..."<br /><br />Like "Are there any benefits to having your apartment there?" An observed single incident of a benefit proves the proposition, "Yes, one time I ordered a pizza and it was free because I was so close to the pizza place"<br /><br />Anecdotes are only not evidence if:<br /><br />a) theyre not true (in this case they are) or<br /><br />b) the question is not in a form where its basically asking "does x exist"<br /><br />The question I was asked was whether benefits exist.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-4832124824885607462019-01-11T13:16:21.523-08:002019-01-11T13:16:21.523-08:00Anecdotes aren't evidence.Anecdotes aren't evidence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-40007189315529416452019-01-10T18:32:57.106-08:002019-01-10T18:32:57.106-08:00@anonymous
A simple example:
More than one tran...@anonymous<br /><br />A simple example: <br /><br />More than one trans person said that Bailey Jay and other trans performers proved to them that trans people could be sexy and accepted and so it made them less afraid to transition.<br /><br />Also: Porn encourages lots of hot people who like sex to live near each other and meet. So it encourages orgies and poly- relationships.<br />And if orgies and open relationships aren't a good outcome then literally nothing is.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-55700874250448758042019-01-10T18:28:45.657-08:002019-01-10T18:28:45.657-08:00What scientifically observable benefits does porn ...What scientifically observable benefits does porn have?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-25453828834382829592019-01-10T14:39:37.051-08:002019-01-10T14:39:37.051-08:00@Friar Zero
At the end of the day, you're pro...@Friar Zero<br /><br />At the end of the day, you're proposing the following common situation and calling it "progressive":<br /><br />You walk over to a woman doing a sex act on camera that's exactly what she wanted to do (often in a scene she produced, nowadays) with people she wanted to do it with (after being tested, of course, this is industry standard) OR a woman who is masturbating to that same sex act at home because she was looking for that exact act--and tell them that they are oppressing themselves with the media they're using to get off.<br /><br />I'm not sure whether you're just a prude who thinks women don't have the right to masturbate because of some off chance what they're masturbating to might damage their fragile lady-brain (and you should make this choice for them) or whether you just don't have a wide acquaintance among women, so you think that the millions of women who enjoy scenarios that you find disturbing don't exist.<br />Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-47385529017460420992019-01-10T05:14:51.393-08:002019-01-10T05:14:51.393-08:00@Kyle Traylor
since @friar zero said
"If yo...@Kyle Traylor<br /><br />since @friar zero said<br /><br />"If you read the 32 links you might see that porn has a net negative affect on society. "<br /><br />As you can see from this quote, this statement proves Friar Zero is an anti-porn conservative. Nothing they could ever say could be intelligent or taken seriously after that.<br /><br />It explains all the other bullshit and shows that Friar, like Willam Morris above, is a crazed bigot--and therefore banned.<br /><br />So you won't get any more answers out of Friar. Friar, like William, is now banned for openly being a bigot.<br /><br />To address Friar's last few pts<br /><br />Applecline/conspiracy theory about "impersonation"-- http://armsinthewronghands.tumblr.com/post/167447123123/timeline-of-the-zak-wars<br /><br />0. Innocent until proven guilty though, so making a fiction requires no burden of proof. Attacking the author for the moral crime of transphobia doe require a burden of proof<br /><br />1. By that standard Amanda Conner and Adam Hughes could draw the same picture and one would negatively affect people who viewed it and the other wouldn't (even if they didn't know who drew it) so that's clearly irrational and you haven't thought this out at all.<br /><br />2. Just because a subject _can_ have a positive effect doesn't mean all creators will be able to achieve it.<br /><br />Nabokov could write Lolita, not just anyone. So this argument is irrational<br /><br />3. You made first-strike personal attacks in your first few posts here ("narcissist" etc) and so immediately forfeited the right not to be insulted. Anyone may call you names at will, like your friend.<br /><br />You've now provably done wrong--like Donald Trump--so cannot claim protection from personal attacks.<br /><br />4. Just because I deleted them from here (they don't refer to games or 80s music so are irrelevant to this discussion) doesn't mean I didn't read them. They're still in my email.<br /><br />5. People can contribute to their own oppression. The question is whether you have the ability to decide they are.<br /><br />And since you said<br /><br />"If you read the 32 links you might see that porn has a net negative affect on society. "<br /><br />(when the links don't even comprehensively examine the positive effects of porn or any of the media they attack)<br /><br />then you've just proved you are an anti-porn conservative and don't have 2 brain cells together.<br /><br />Bigots are _not allowed on this site_ and since you're a crazed bigot you must leave.<br /><br />You can't claim to be pro-sex worker and that you, King Rando, know better than every woman in porn what does and doesn't help or hurt them and more than you can tell all people of another ethnicity you know what constitutes "racism" toward them than you do.<br /><br />You're a swerf, so you might as well be a Nazi, and you and William need to step the fuck off .<br /><br />Seek therapy.<br /><br />Bye.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-90188416629314618442019-01-09T22:23:31.141-08:002019-01-09T22:23:31.141-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Friar Zerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14431615054243185192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-12988875915990348462019-01-09T22:18:07.103-08:002019-01-09T22:18:07.103-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Friar Zerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14431615054243185192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-65691215245340574432019-01-09T19:31:10.408-08:002019-01-09T19:31:10.408-08:00Not included in your definition, but present on th...Not included in your definition, but present on the same wikipedia page: "In the United States, a cultural conservative may imply a conservative position in the culture wars. [citation needed]." There's also Alan Bloom and Jim Webb listed as possible examples. <br /><br />Words have divergent, changing, ambiguous meanings which vary by region and culture, and I'm very surprised to see somebody using the kind of tactic typically used to imply "racism" only means personal bigotry rather than structural and systemic discrimination in this way. It's probably more accurate to say you're aesthetically conservative, but that's me being charitable where Zak isn't.<br /><br />Anyway, say it outright: do you think the trans authors of that game are complicit in their own oppression by writing a predatory trans character or not?Kyle Traylornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-74813827905597657232019-01-09T13:29:59.995-08:002019-01-09T13:29:59.995-08:000. The same reason you decided to write a trans ch...0. The same reason you decided to write a trans character.<br /><br />1. In an image of a woman by themselves, no you cannot determine agency. A fictional woman being posed seductively by a male artist has no agency.<br /><br />2. Horse shit. Take your idea to the logical conclusion. Everything should have rape jokes in it because someone somewhere might benefit and any benefit is worth any harm. Explain why you aren't a Stalinist.<br /><br />3. Says the man who called me a cultural conservative.<br /><br />4.You are arguing in bad faith, you deleted the list of links before you had time to review a single one. To claim that the links contain no methodology without reading them is pure trolling. Again you demonstrate that you are only here to sing to the choir without ever engaging in substance.<br /><br />5. Are you saying that people cannot contribute to their own oppression? If you read the 32 links you might see that porn has a net negative affect on society. If that is true then that must imply porn stars are acting without either fully understanding or caring about the consequences.<br /><br />My limit of knowledge was about an edge case that could go either way. We're now in the realm of well documented phenomena. Hands and electron microscopes sonny Jim.Friar Zerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14431615054243185192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-62597287981897755762019-01-09T01:05:53.936-08:002019-01-09T01:05:53.936-08:00@Friar Zero
0. If this surpasses your ablity as a...@Friar Zero<br /><br />0. If this surpasses your ablity as a cis man then why did you render a judgment? Why not leave this to trans women to sort out instead of attacking people based on your limited ability to judge<br /><br />1. How do you determine if someone "has agency" in a fiction? Can you scroll through nude pics of instagram fetish models and decide which of the images show them as "having agency" and which ones don't?<br /><br />And how does this not violate the "limit of your ability" problem as you are policing women's desires for how they portray themselves?<br /><br />2. So in every case where you (or any drama club member) claims a work does harm you need to not only _prove harm_ you need to find out if it _does good in the world_. <br /><br />This goes back to the issue with the Bailey Jay character: we know for a fact there are trans women who see this as doing whatever good can be done by positive representation, we have zero evidence (again) that anyone changed their ideas about trans ppl for the worse due to it.<br /><br />If a real human being goes "the depiction of (anything) in x game helped me and my peeps think about it more and that helped me" then the mere presence of an objectionable topic cannot ever be considered grounds to condemn a work. This complicates 1, above, considerably.<br /><br />It's real easy, for instance, to find trans women who have found images of violent body horror therapeutic http://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-horror-horrocks.html <br /><br />3. No: all debate structures admit a person can express a negative belief about someone without making a personal attack.<br /><br />Instead of "creepy weirdo" a critic can articulate a specific complaint about a specific action, then stick around to defend that accusation in detail. Chucking a persona attack serves no purpose that simply stating a criticism couldn't. Lots of forums ban personal attacks for this reason: they serve no constructive purpose --they just let your friend know yr mad.<br /><br />4. She was wrong to claim misogyny she couldn't prove. Misogyny is obviously bad.<br /><br />You can't keep using the same bad tactic over and over: "Wait misogyny isn't bad????" of course it is. What we are debating is _what qualifies as miogyny_ .<br /><br />Tipper Gore used your same arguments "Madonna's music matches my vague, subjective, definition of anti-feminist speech, therefore it is".<br /><br />She didn't describe a diagnostic (neither do your links) and she didn't test people exposed to Madonna for ill effects.<br /><br />The point is you can't claim your argument is good until you can describe a difference between your opinion and hers.<br /><br />5. If you're now saying Tipper Gore was wrong, you might not be a cultural conservative orrrrr...... I would say that if it wasn't for you blatantly bigoted last (deleted comment)<br /><br />"<br />This is what comes from hanging out mostly with porn stars and art directors. You start to think you're the smartest person in the room because you probably were the smartest person in those rooms.<br />"<br /><br />While many of your comments second-guess womens' choices by _strong_ implication, in that one you are out-and-out misogynistically calling female sex workers stupid (or less intelligent than you).<br /><br />There's no excuse for that.<br /><br />I was very hesitant to assume the Occam's razor solution here: you second guess how Bailey and other porn women choose to represent themselves because you think they've got a false consciousness because they're not as well-informed as you and your Discourse Friends. You feel comfortable dismissing women who are cool with sexualized imagery and their arguments because you casually assume they aren't as informed as you.<br /><br />I still hesitate. Good people don't assume motive. So: if you have a better explanation than this, please do explain.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-53204262286517592572019-01-09T00:41:00.369-08:002019-01-09T00:41:00.369-08:000. That is a matter of debate at which we are at a...0. That is a matter of debate at which we are at an impasse by reaching the limit of our abilities as cis men.<br /><br />1. You can decide if an image is sexist or not if it portrays women as without agency or purely as a sex object. Yes, this implies that much of porn is exploitative. As outlined in the 32 links (may their passing cleanse the world). #NotAllPorn<br /><br />2.In principal yes, it is more than possible. I can think of several works where women describe their assaults that have helped women I know deal with their trauma. What any of this has to do with elfgames is beyond me. <br /><br />For example Blood & Chocolates Oompa Loompa gang rape joke is entirely in bad taste and has no business being in an elfgame. Giving away a scantily clad and questionably young firl figurine as an incentive to buy a game is treating women like objects for the pleasure of men. I've not heard any criticism of Invisible Sun save that it's expensive. And vampire gets criticized for mocking the mass extermination of gay people while including Nazi code words like 1488. I'm not seeing a lot of room for interpretation.<br /><br />3. Your definition of harassment is so broad as to include all disagreeing opinion. Opinion of you as a person and your character is still valid opinion.<br /><br />4. Tipper was wrong about that, sure. Was she wrong to criticize misogyny? It's something black women still complain about in hip-hop and african-american culture.<br /><br />5. You are redefining the word cultural conservative. WhereFriar Zerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14431615054243185192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-47811788849899110522019-01-08T22:21:18.737-08:002019-01-08T22:21:18.737-08:00@Friar Zero
0. The point of this discussion is yo...@Friar Zero<br /><br />0. The point of this discussion is you haven't proved it "advanced a stereotype". There are no reports of anyone who didn't believe that stereotype believing it because of the game.<br /><br />1. None of them describe how to decide how any of the images that were controversial in RPG land are bad or not. It looks like you didn't read what you posted.<br /><br />If you disagree, post a quote from one of your links that describes how to tell, in detail, whether any given image is bad or not. One that describes an objective and not subjective standard.<br /><br />2. I answer all questions but we do one thing at a time. Since you're not answering you have ceased to be able to claim you're acting in good faith.<br /><br />Your claim these issues are real or important to you is objectively a sham. You will be given one grace comment to answer the question. If you do not: done. <br /><br />At that point it is obvious you don't have a coherent point of view or care about any social justice issue, because you're refusing the opportunity to clarify your views.<br /><br />3. "Creepy weirdo" is a first-strike personal attack and that's harassment. Telling people to report such a person is good anti-harassment praxis<br /><br />4. The violent crime rate hasn't gone up, even though all the lyrical tendencies in music she railed against have only increased.<br /><br />If that isn't good enough for you--if your contention is:<br /><br />"I, Friar Zero, am a person who believe Tipper Gore was right and so on the same grounds I condemn the various media that has offended the RPG drama club"<br /><br />I'm happy to leave it there: you are admitting to being a cultural conservative and you are defending speculative outrage and guesswork-attacks on art based on your cultural conservative view that works of art should NOT be held innocent until proven guilty.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-1826428664747623862019-01-08T22:07:15.238-08:002019-01-08T22:07:15.238-08:000. If I am correct in it advancing a stereotype th...0. If I am correct in it advancing a stereotype then it did harm. See the 32 links (praise be unto them).<br /><br />1.Look at the 32 links (peace be unto them) and their methodology for selecting images to test.<br /><br />2. You wouldn't answer my "vague" questions I'm not going to answer yours. You get what you give homeslice.<br /><br />3. https://imgur.com/a/hyFDlhi<br /><br />4. Show me how Tipper Gore was proven wrong? With empirical studies in reputable journals only please.Friar Zerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14431615054243185192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-60955305144543633162019-01-08T21:58:07.648-08:002019-01-08T21:58:07.648-08:00@friar zero
0. You haven't proven it's co...@friar zero<br /><br />0. You haven't proven it's complicit. Prove _this_ work did harm now<br /><br />1. You still didnt address the issue: You can't just go "A bad image is an image that is unnecessarily wrong". That doesn't offer a diagnostic to individual images, especially int he context of fiction.<br /><br />2. You must answer questions "Without referring to any specific works, do you agree that, in principle, a work could depict unpleasant social realities in a way that has a positive impact?""<br /><br />I am asking you if a given thing is POSSIBLE. Answer<br /><br />3. "Like that guy ..."<br /><br />Link to me calling for someone to be reported that you believe to be illegitimate.<br /><br />The people you name have all smeared me and other RPG authors with false claims, and smears are not about Cheerios, but are still wrong.<br /><br />4. The arguments they gave had more in common than "bad media produces bad effects."<br /><br />They argued that _a given piece of media was bad_ despite _having no conclusive evidence it was_. And in all cases: *the media they sad was bad was proved to not be bad and those effects they predicted did not appear*.<br /><br />Do you understand the distinction between those 2 concepts?Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-57071367155431291032019-01-08T21:47:41.145-08:002019-01-08T21:47:41.145-08:000. "To do otherwise is to treat transwomen as...0. "To do otherwise is to treat transwomen as people whose beliefs do not matter simply because they don't agree with you". <br />Except this isn't a case of denying their rights, it's a case of whether they produced a work that is complicit in their own oppression. Humans do that all the time. Should people in minority communities not be treated like humans?<br /><br />0.5 "No because _none_ of those books mention, say, Carcosa, or any of the other specific works in question"<br /><br />Do I, or do I not need an electron microscope to tell whether my hand has neutrons in it? Science isn't an individualist enterprise. Your favorite exploitative image doesn't get to be the exception to the rule.<br /><br />1. "The argument where art is described in vague general terms was used against hip hop and other music by your forbears in the 80s. They have since been proven wrong."<br />In what way? Black women still complain about how misogyny is deeply ingrained in the hip-hop world.<br /><br />"Porn actresses point this out constantly to their harassers."<br />You might want to do some actual research into porn's influence before defending it carte blanche there, Locke.<br /><br />2."Without referring to any specific works, do you agree that, in principle, a work could depict unpleasant social realities in a way that has a positive impact?"<br />Now who is vague? Without context nothing means anything.<br /><br />3."When the 'something negative' is false then the person saying the 'something negative' is harassing me by saying a false negative statement about a human being in public. That's called a smear. They are harassing me."<br />Like that guy who called you a bad artist? I see nothing false in that claim. What about all the people who have disagreed with you on the nature of a questionable image that you have harassed? What about all the critics? What about all the fellow game devs who never made factual claims other than they don't like you?<br /><br />"If someone robs you, telling people to stop the thief is not harassing them"<br />Olivia Hill never stole your money. Anna Krieder never took your paintbrush. John Harper never pissed in your cheerios. People thinking you're an asshole and objecting to your constant solidarity with misogynist art is NOT harassment. If it was then we could never criticize anything. Not even Stalin could get rid of all criticism and he did a hell of alot more for the world than you ever will.<br /><br />4.They all used the argument that bad media produces bad effects. A belief backed up by the 32 links (blessed be their name). You don't get to link genocide to criticism and then say the topic is off limits. So either explain to me how Tipper gore killed 6 million Jews or delete this disingenuous trolly clickbait blog post and try again without the childish hyperbole.Friar Zerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14431615054243185192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-2640799109877268272019-01-08T21:28:54.478-08:002019-01-08T21:28:54.478-08:00@Friar Zero
0. No, you should not disregard what ...@Friar Zero<br /><br />0. No, you should not disregard what they say. You should do this:<br /><br />When they first say it, if you don't know any better, it is appropriate to believe them.<br /><br />However: as soon as you find out that there are transwomen who disagree, including ones who _made the game_ you should acknowledge that this is not an open and shut case.<br /><br />At that point, you must _suspend judgment_ until one of two things happen:<br /><br />Either the disagreeing trans people talk to each other and come to a consensus after all arguments have been debated and all questions get answered <br />OR<br />Conclusive evidence that the specific piece of media in question results in provable harm exists.<br /><br />To do otherwise is to treat transwomen as people whose beliefs do not matter simply because they don't agree with you or bc you don't know them. They are humans, as is everyone else involved in the game, they deserve an innocent until proven guilty like anyone else.<br /><br />1. No because _none_ of those books mention, say, Carcosa, or any of the other specific works in question. "Sexualized" (or "unnecessarily sexualized") are not well-defined enough for the question of any given works' appropriateness to be determined before the fact. Porn actresses point this out constantly to their harassers.<br /><br />The argument where art is described in vague general terms was used against hip hop and other musci by your forbears in the 80s. They have since been proven wrong.<br /><br />You can't just go "A bad image is an image that is unnecessarily wrong". That doesn't offer a diagnostic to individual images, especially int he context of fiction.<br /><br />2. No, there isn't. But depiction of difficult or disturbing imagery can have positive effects. <br /><br />Without referring to any specific works, do you agree that, in principle, a work could depict unpleasant social realities in a way that has a positive impact?<br /><br />3. <br />" I have seen, first hand, you tell your followers to report someone for saying something negative about you. That is harassment."<br /><br />Incorrect.<br /><br />When the 'something negative' is false then the person saying the 'something negative' is harassing me by saying a false negative statement about a human being in public. That's called a smear. They are harassing me.<br /><br />Reporting that behavior is appropriate. Me asking other people to help report it is anti-harassment activism. It has proven to be effective, it is also the *recommended course of action* for victims of harassment to ask friends to help report in all online-harassment resources I've come across.<br /><br />If someone robs you, telling people to stop the thief is not harassing them<br /><br />.4. "<br />"Images can cause harm, even fictional ones.<br /><br />That is not the issue at stake. No intelligent person would ever need to discuss that--it's a nonissue."<br /><br />Yet your entire post is about people who say this are equivalent to the actual factual fucking holocaust.<br />"<br /><br />We already addressed this. You're backsliding into already established areas. Please try to remember the points that have been made: <br /><br />The issue at stake is <br /><br />Whether the images that the RPG drama club claim cause harm actually did.<br /><br /><br />As for the Holocaust:<br /><br />Hitler's attack on culture (and Frederic Wertham's and Tipper Gore's--which did not lead to genocide but were also proved wrong) all used the same arguments. That is the connection.<br /><br />Please in your response acknowledge that you read this sentence and do not again repeat this false argument.<br /><br /><br />-<br />Address these things in your post.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-38384486203083747842019-01-08T19:35:05.137-08:002019-01-08T19:35:05.137-08:00Also
"Images can cause harm, even fictional o...Also<br />"Images can cause harm, even fictional ones.<br /><br />That is not the issue at stake. No intelligent person would ever need to discuss that--it's a nonissue."<br /><br />Yet your entire post is about people who say this are equivalent to the actual factual fucking holocaust.Friar Zerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14431615054243185192noreply@blogger.com