tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post2085225734822482805..comments2024-03-19T16:24:23.777-07:00Comments on Playing D&D With Porn Stars: Hunter/HuntedZak Sabbathhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comBlogger81125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-61057834415501361892014-08-02T10:15:10.414-07:002014-08-02T10:15:10.414-07:00Hey that's neat that you came back to note tha...Hey that's neat that you came back to note that, 2097Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-66687524015537932852014-08-02T10:11:26.133-07:002014-08-02T10:11:26.133-07:00To be specific, my forays into investigative games...To be specific, my forays into investigative games like CoC have been centered around a “big reveal”, and I believe it’s that focus on a “big reveal” in-and-of-itself — as opposed to sandboxier fare — that I have had problems making work at the table. My apologies (two years later...) for placing the blame more on the hunter/hunted structure, and I misunderstood your take on hunter/hunted. Thanks for sharing your GM:ing techniques. I’m going to stay away from CoC and similar games for a while.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-69224431669040733092012-05-02T08:55:59.900-07:002012-05-02T08:55:59.900-07:00Linking to a whole thread by multiple posters does...Linking to a whole thread by multiple posters doesn't really clear much up--which part is the part you found useful?Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-20744097915655699612012-05-02T05:32:20.858-07:002012-05-02T05:32:20.858-07:00Just stumbled upon this great post from the Story ...Just stumbled upon this great post from the Story Games forum. In the past I too have been frustrated with the clunky 'breadcrumb trail' of clues present in investigative RPGs such as Call Of Cthulhu.<br /><br />I recently discovered this thread on The Forge about approaching the problem from a completely different perspective, and it blew my mind and made my subsequent investigation scenarios about 500% more satisfying and naturally fluid. I recommend you check it out.<br /><br />http://www.indie-rpgs.com/archive/index.php?topic=13089.0Paul Staxx Spragethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03605913981502437470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-15268690188279428652012-02-26T19:16:32.935-08:002012-02-26T19:16:32.935-08:00I should've left my out-of-sequence post becau...I should've left my out-of-sequence post because now it just looks like I said something dickish and deleted it.huthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16502682297320819595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-90571041796705619902012-02-26T19:00:01.389-08:002012-02-26T19:00:01.389-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.huthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16502682297320819595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-63616442315840918602012-02-26T18:57:54.099-08:002012-02-26T18:57:54.099-08:00@huth
It is a matter of knowing your players very...@huth<br /><br />It is a matter of knowing your players very well.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-30404520100764091332012-02-26T18:55:37.287-08:002012-02-26T18:55:37.287-08:00To try and rephrase, my question is: when or how d...To try and rephrase, my question is: when or how does the GM know, or how to they decide, that the players know or understand enough to be making the choice proactively and definitively not reactively?huthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16502682297320819595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-46073064315407868722012-02-26T18:50:30.486-08:002012-02-26T18:50:30.486-08:00@huth
an inability to do what one wishes to do is...@huth<br /><br />an inability to do what one wishes to do is, i suppose, regrettably common. This post is for people who can't even decide what they wish to do.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-38727598172050611202012-02-26T18:34:59.960-08:002012-02-26T18:34:59.960-08:00@ Zak
Haha, it was a link to your orcfanticide li...@ Zak<br /><br />Haha, it was a link to your orcfanticide list post.huthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16502682297320819595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-35651436640022544272012-02-26T18:33:15.829-08:002012-02-26T18:33:15.829-08:00You're right, though, my group is probably a l...You're right, though, my group <i>is</i> probably a little unusual compared to others, since I only started playing when I was 17ish and most of my players started in their 20s with this group, which was the first time I DM'd more than one session. There's a whole oral culture of playerdom which we're not part of.huthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16502682297320819595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-44417118350716999022012-02-26T18:21:19.205-08:002012-02-26T18:21:19.205-08:00@huth
It is rare that I come upon a comment which...@huth<br /><br />It is rare that I come upon a comment which I fail to understand in any way but it has happened.<br /><br />That link went to something unrelated and the #3 refers to--what? <br /><br />I am very confusedZak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-13486774939334478272012-02-26T18:17:06.845-08:002012-02-26T18:17:06.845-08:00@ Zak
#3 leads me to think my issue with it is a ...@ Zak<br /><br /><a href="http://www.designfetish.org/2012/02/diy-minimal-business-cards-on-go.html" rel="nofollow">#3 leads me to think my issue with it is a local version of a pretty broad problem.</a> A more, uh, empirically-treatable version of the discussion would have to be "how much information is enough to hit/trigger/whatever the choke-point"? I'm sure DMs with more years of experience than I can weigh in; I can only shrug and say that I'm going to give them a freebie at the start.huthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16502682297320819595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-80254203799620381652012-02-26T10:28:59.431-08:002012-02-26T10:28:59.431-08:00@huth
or maybe "ok, broadly applicable, but ...@huth<br /><br />or maybe "ok, broadly applicable, but not to my group or groups in some respect like it which, in the end, are the only people I can talk about with any authority"Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-38461352835215534762012-02-26T10:00:13.020-08:002012-02-26T10:00:13.020-08:00@huth
or maybe not "unique", but certai...@huth<br /><br />or maybe not "unique", but certainly conditions that are not necessarily broadly applicable.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-66170644074566139752012-02-26T09:59:15.956-08:002012-02-26T09:59:15.956-08:00@huth
" the only thing I can really predict ...@huth<br /><br />" the only thing I can really predict is that the players will definitely interpret it wrong. I know they will. "<br /><br />Well then your whole thing is predicated on conditions unique to your group and I am not psychic so I didn't write a post directed at them.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-3380590206469770122012-02-26T07:38:37.618-08:002012-02-26T07:38:37.618-08:00@ Zak
It's just that, were I to actually prep...@ Zak<br /><br />It's just that, were I to actually prep that way, it would end up as a non-choice—since the only thing I can really predict is that the players will definitely interpret it wrong. I know they will. So what I <i>have</i> to prep, practically, however player-choice-empowering or not, isn't really what happens if they do it wrong but all the different possible ways they can do it wrong. Otherwise, I'm going to be flailing about the entire session.huthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16502682297320819595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-71801103629254405782012-02-13T09:49:48.248-08:002012-02-13T09:49:48.248-08:00@huth
"What's the specific benefit to pre...@huth<br />"What's the specific benefit to prepping the investigation that comes from restricting potential access to information at the beginning, turning it into a chain instead of a sandbox?"<br /><br />Simple:<br />Your solution is fine as well, it's just some people are too inexperienced or time-constrained to do that or deal with the potential consequences of doing that.<br /><br />Plus, y'know: variety.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />____<br />Also:<br />There is no "pre-arranged chain of events" however--if you think that you are reading the post wrong. Merely locations and situations that (as in life) trigger certain kinds of events.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-29387572155603282432012-02-13T09:29:52.093-08:002012-02-13T09:29:52.093-08:00@ Zak
It doesn't, because I'm specificall...@ Zak<br /><br />It doesn't, because I'm specifically wondering why you need to bother establishing the chain of events beforehand instead of prepping three player reaction steps, one-to-three NPC actions, and just dumping each clue on them once, and letting it arrange itself in play? What's the specific benefit to prepping the investigation that comes from restricting potential access to information at the beginning, turning it into a chain instead of a sandbox? Especially in regards to prepping antagonist reactions: why not establish a consistent modus operandi, early on (when they find the dead uncle's body), and then derive overt/covert reactions from that? (I don't mean that rhetorically. What are you looking for when designing a serial killer?)<br /><br />Relating it back to the dungeon, dumping them in a room with three secret doors and a hidden trap at the beginning seems like a better bet at getting them to find one than just one door and just one trap.huthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16502682297320819595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-21049366993513004482012-02-13T00:31:54.245-08:002012-02-13T00:31:54.245-08:00“The "victim" role may seem passive”
Yea...“The "victim" role may seem passive”<br />Yeah, I’ve tried this hunter/hunted structure a couple of times over the years and it can fail just because of that. Sometimes it does work but I’ve more-or-less given it up for now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-16558327392457352222012-02-11T08:32:25.080-08:002012-02-11T08:32:25.080-08:00@huth
Who the fuck said "need"?
Again,...@huth<br /><br />Who the fuck said "need"?<br /><br />Again, I will quote myself and you can decide whether this answers your question or not:<br /><br />"<br />...I am going to describe a very simple but effective way to totally not railroad people in a horror game (or really, any investigation-based game).<br /><br />Note this is not the only way, but it is, like a dungeon or a sandbox, a simple, durable structure you can use that has meaningful choice built into it.<br />"Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-80098716825241285002012-02-11T08:00:45.674-08:002012-02-11T08:00:45.674-08:00@ Zak
Why do you need a bifurcated linear scene c...@ Zak<br /><br />Why do you need a bifurcated linear scene chain or multiple twinnings to prep that instead of a floating pile of foreshadowed antagonist actions though?huthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16502682297320819595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-76890960760097687772012-02-11T07:42:42.514-08:002012-02-11T07:42:42.514-08:00**internal genre fiction logic**internal genre fiction logichuthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16502682297320819595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-66420976168661625282012-02-11T07:40:51.655-08:002012-02-11T07:40:51.655-08:00@ David
Getting the players into internal fiction...@ David<br /><br />Getting the players into internal fictional logic versus D&D fictional logic (wherein capture = living death instead of capture = just another problem) has about thirty years of oral culture training to fight against.huthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16502682297320819595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2638993969706011706.post-5566671003865347392012-02-10T14:28:46.195-08:002012-02-10T14:28:46.195-08:00I like this.
I also like that you defined railro...I like this. <br /><br />I also like that you defined railroading; I worry sometimes that I railroad, but I meet your criteria of informed choices leading to radically different outcomes from any scene.<br /><br />It occurs to me that the Ultimate GM would naturally know how every NPC responds to every scenario; there would be no railroading, since every result would arise naturally from the fiction. But since the Ultimate GM doesn't exist, we need cool tools to approximate that result. Poorly designed tools = railroading; well-designed tools just reduce brain energy required to model the internal logic of the fiction.David S. Goodwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02632734855520547624noreply@blogger.com